Curse

tuperwho · Apr 19, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

In light of factions, my guild is trying to broaden our horizons from PvE into the realm of PvP. Obviously, my PvE builds will no longer cut it. Thus, at the request of one of the first ever HA groups I joined with, I peeked my head into e-denial. I've had a few more experiences since then, and was very happy with my output last night I'm hoping some of you can help me make my build even better though. I ideally want to focus on GvG, but would also be happy if I could take the same thing into HA and an occasional TA.

Me/Mo weilding Illyanna's staff, and with enchanters armor.

Fast casting: 8+1
Domination: 8+1+3
Inspiration: 10
healing: 10

Restore life -- an attempt at a fast casting re-usable res.
Mind Wrack
backfire
E surge {E}
E burn
sig. of weariness
ether feast
energy tap

I didn't actually get to try out the restore life functionality, as we only had one death in the GvG last night. I was very happy with how this build worked, but am affraid it might only be that way because our opponent's weren't too good. I was also pleased at the ability to utilize this against other casters and melee oponents after the monks dropped.

Basically, I focus on damage and e-denial. The mind wrack, surge, burn, and sig are the basis of e-denial. E. feast and E. tap assist in e-denial, and are also very helpful to keep me going (energy was no problem, and ether feast did a small portion to heal me). I loved how well backfire worked as a cover. I know it's expensive, but by casting wrack then backfire, I would usually catch the monks casting a hex removal, aiming at mind wrack. Instead, they would remove (and trigger for ~120 damage) backfire. Then, since wrack was still on, I could hit a surge or burn, and trigger it (combined ~150 more damage).

Now, I know the only reason worked was that my monks were great and kept me up and running the whole time.

So, the help I want:
1) can I improve attributes, weapon, armor, etc? I know I need a minor insp. rune, but the problem is that this is my PvE char. with 15k armor, and I have a rune in each piece that I don't want to change. Is it realistic to convert my PvE mesmer, or should I just create a PvP one?
2)skills - do I desperately need to nix any of these? Is the attempt at a "resmer" res. skill worthwhile? I kinda want to add an enchant removal to this, but like what I was running with (IMO, ether feast would be the one to go to achieve ench. removal).
3) Am I just way off my horse? Did this only work because we fought a mediocre guild? I'm new to PvP, but strive to fight higher ranked opponents. Will a setup like this hold up at all?

Thanks for the help.

BeowulfKamdas · Apr 19, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

1) I would sink a bit of money into some "cheap" droknars equipment and get the best runes there. Mesmer runes are cheap last time i checked.

2)Kill of healing prayers and bring ressurect if you want a hard rez. Your attribute points are better spent elsewhere (like in domination). bringing an attribute up to 10 while having only a single skill that doesn't get used very often doesn't sound appealing to me

I would drop energy tap, and backfire for some disruptive skills like diversion or an interrupt like power leak or maybe matra of inscriptions to get some more mileage outta sig of weariness

I'm not too familiar w/ e-denial mesmers but does mind wrack really need a cover? I believe its cost is low enough and its recharge is fast enough that casting a cover like backfire is less efficient than just recasting it.

3)no comment

dgb · Apr 19, 2006, 04:32 PM // 16:32

In my view you are better off running a PvP character. Unless you really want to sink the money into putting a PvE character together for PVP (and it get's expensive, I've done it for two characters) you're allways going to do better with a PvP - PvE characters when completely kitted out offer advantages, but generally your better off with PvP.

Wrack doesn't really need a cover - it's spammable enough - if they want to burn energy removing it that's fine, your energy is cheaper than theirs.

Agree about healing prayers and the hard res - run resurrect if you want it, but you've sunk huge ammounts of attribute points into something you really don't need there. The resmer isn't a bad idea at all, plenty of top guilds run it, but they almost allways run on resurrect and not restore life.

I'd swap energy tap for drain enchant - i'm not sure which provides more energy but drain enchant provides an offensive edge as well.

I'm not a fan of ether feast, but that comes down to how defensive the rest of your build is - if your monks are comfortable with you not having a self heal then feel free to drop it - maybe shatter enchant for extra pain would be good - otherwise keep it.

Buzzer · Apr 19, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I agree more or less with the others.

One piece of Courtly/Noble/Performers/Virtuosos armour would be in an ideal build because of the global armour it gives. Doesn't make much difference either way.

Get rid of Healing Prayers for reasons already stated.

Hmmm, I'd lose Backfire and Energy Tap for Drain Enchantment and either Diversion or Cry of Frustration. Backfire isn't a great cover hex because of it's cost and cast time. I wouldn't think that Mind Wrack needs a cover.

tuperwho · Apr 19, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I guess I wasn't too clear about Backfire. I didn't mean it to be a cover in the classical sense. More to the fact that I know they're gonna cast, and it will make them pay for doing so. Plus, I can get the effect from Wrack and still be ready to re-cast it almost immediately. So, I will give it consideration, but I really like having it there (even if good sense says otherwise). I could see it leaving to be replaced by an interrupt, though.

Drain enchantment is a good idea. As I said, it is somehting I want to add to the build. It would return almost the same amount of energy as E. tap. However, I also like tap, because it is energy steal, not just gain. Thus, it works with the denail and being able to trigger wrack more often (including at less expected intervals, which was important according to the sticky e-denial guide). You guys would all keep ether feast over E.tap? The long-ish cast on feast seems to mean that it's nowhere near adequate if I'm taking heavy heat. Thus, I rely on monks. And therfore, why not just let them do the whole deal? It does play a role in E. denial, though...

And the monk res skill. Like I said, this was my PvE char., so I initially had res. sig (my understanding of the PvP staple) in my bar, until a party member asked for a re-usable. Obviously, rebirth is trash in PvP, because it leaves both members S.O.L. on energy and the ressurrected one short on life too. Resurrect doesn't seem much better, as it also leaves the resurrected player boned as far as life and energy go. So, to me at least, restore life is the best option to accomlish both multiple uses, and mediocre life and energy for the res'd individual. And you mention a large hindrance to my build because of this. Thing is, I came to PvP with 0 healing and 16 in domination. Decreasing it by 4 attribute levels, though, barely changed the build. Yes, I lost about 20 damage on mindwrac, and some on backfire too. However, the e-denail barely changed. Surge, Burn, and sig. of weariness decreased from 10 energy removed to 9 energy removed. Would you really suggest I put these points back even though they had such a small effect? Would it maybe be better in inspiration or fast casting?

Thanks for the help so far. Hope you can tell I'm not a noob, and have actually given this thought, but am just new to the scene.

Edit: And point well taken on the PvP char. I was in a rush to get in the game, so thought it quicker to use my PvE. I will fix this in the future, though. Also, what weapons are ideal for this?

Blow Up Doll · Apr 19, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuperwho

I also like tap, because it is energy steal, not just gain.

Well in theory your stealing an enchantment which can also throw many builds a bit. However if you want more e-stealing i think a good idea would be mantra of signets to use with your signet of weariness which works very well (i often used to run a similar build in tombs and that worked well)

i think my build was:

surge
burn
wrack
sig of weariness
mantra of signets
guilt
leach sig
res sig

JR · Apr 19, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuperwho

Obviously, rebirth is trash in PvP, because it leaves both members S.O.L. on energy and the ressurrected one short on life too.

Actually Rebirth is one of the better hard resses. It's all about positioning.

It doesn't require you to stand over the dead body of your comrade, putting yourself at the mercy of the other team and making you very vaunerable to interrupts with such a tell as to what you are doing.

It pulls your comrade back from wherever he may be to safety, out of harms way. Meaning if someone is a bit over-extended when they die, you can pull them way into your backline for safe healing up.

You can negate the effects of the energy loss on the caster through focus swapping down to a negative energy set. Swap down, cast, swap back. Finish up with about 17 energy depending on your set up.

tuperwho · Apr 19, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Interesting perspective, JR. Hadn't thought of that. Thanks

And Blow up doll, I still think you misunderstood me. When I say steal, I mean him losing, and me gainin. Win-Win. Things like Energy tap do both (though I'm confused when you say "stealing an echantment"- are you referring to inspired enchantment, or drain enchantment instead?). I noticed guilt in your suggestion, though. Before you had responded, I had been looking at the merit of a similar skill, shame.

The way I currenlty see my build: Mind Wrack, Energy Surge {E}, Energy burn, Signet of Weariness, and a res. (still a tossup as to which). Then, I have 3 spots left, but 4 roles I could see them filling.
1. damage - backfire and shatter enchantment are the primary choices I see
2. energy loss for opponent -- shame, energy tap, power leak
3. energy gain for me -- shame, energy tap, or drain enchantment
4. enchantment removal -- shatter enchantment or drain enchantement

So, I'm debating the combos, and see 3 good combos that would cover all these bases: backfire/shame/drain enchantment as one, shatter enchantment/energy tap/shame as the second, and energy tap/backfire/drain or shatter ench. as the third. I'm starting to wonder, however, if I should simply specialize more. Instead of doing damage, e-denial, and ench. removal, should I take off one of these hats (I already decided to drop trying to do an interrupt, as that was yet another role). Thanks for the help so far, everyone.

Eonwe · Apr 20, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Your typical gvg wracker is going to look something along the lines of this.

Domination: 12+1+1
Inspiration: 10+1
Fast Casting: 8+1

Energy Surge
Energy Burn
Signet of Weariness
Drain Enchantment
Shatter Enchantment
Mind Wrack
Ressurect
*Utility Slot*

Warskull · Apr 20, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Alright lets fix this build up.

First dom needs to be run at 14 because that is the ideal break point for the three energy denial skills you run. Healing prayers are unnecessary.

Next lets work on your skill selection.

Your core skills:
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Signet of Weariness

Backfire and Ether feast don't synch well with your goal, get rid of them. Mind wrack is a decent choice. Rebirth would be a better hard rez in gvg.

This gives us

Mind Wrack
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Signet of Weariness
[open slot]
[open slot]
[open slot]
Rebirth

Skills that would be strong in these open slots are drain enchantment, shatter enchantment, power leak (if you are good with it), diversion, shame (to a lesser degree than diversion)

Personally I suggest taking drain enchantment and diversion as a good start.

Vindexus · Apr 20, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Mind Wrack
Energy Burn
Energy Surge
Signet of Weariness
[open slot]
[open slot]
[open slot]
Rebirth

For those last three slots I like at least one of them to be an emanagement skill. Power Drain, ETap or Drain Enchantment are my favorites.

For those last slots I'd like at least one interupt, preferably Cry of Frustration. Power Leak is also a great choice.

For the very last slot I'd chose from
Diversion
Distortion
Shatter Enchantment
Remove Hex
Gale
Shame

JR · Apr 20, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

And Blackout as an option for that second free slot, in my opinion.

Valkyries · Apr 20, 2006, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I play this build a ton in HA, so I can try to help you out a bit.

This is what my core is:

Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Mind Wrack

Then I usually just run Res Signet (to res Monks but hard res is quite good as well)

So that gives us
Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Mind Wrack
open slot
open slot
open slot
open slot
Res Signet

I realize signet of Weariness isn't there and that is because I don't think its absolutely necessary. Don't get me wrong, its a fantastic skill, but I really don't think its a must. I've ran it many times without and have done just fine.

So as everyone else has mentioned you need some good energy management. I personally like to take Drain Enchantment, Power Drain and Shame (Thanks Warskull)

These are very offensive/defensive skills. Shame is brutal against enemy Monks and Drain Enchantment is great against everything. Power Drain is a wonderful skill but to be honest, I find sometimes its hard to hit. The worst is if you miss, then you have a long recast time. Unlike a Glyph Mesmer (the other type of Mesmer I play) where you can just get the "free" Recharge for the Power Drain if you miss, this build just simply has to wait it out. So really depends on how good you are with triggering it. Personally I'd go with Drain Enchant + Shame at least until you get used to interupts.

For the next two slots, I usually take some sort of shutdown or interupt. Diversion is absolutely amazing. Contrary to ppl saying "Diversion sucks, its 6 seconds or waste, blah blah.." I really urge you to try this and see what you think. I rarely ever leave it out of my skill bar. Its just SO good. I use it with this build and I use it with my other Mesmers too. Blackout is nice as JR mentioned but it depends really. I find in HA its hard to get to the Monks without getting smashed by a Warrior in the process. I know you can use Blackouts on everyone, but its tricky. Using it on a Warrior is great because you make them loose all Adrienline but they will just turn and polverize you with their attacks. Even a regular axe or Hammer swinging Warrior with no skills hurt. Another very solid option is Cry of Frustration to keep people from using those Res Sigs and other skills.... and the best with this is you are really bound to hit SOMETHING, unlike Power Drain where its quite hard to time it properly.

So my build usually looks like this:
Energy Surge {E}
Energy Burn
Mind Wrack
Diversion
Shame
Drain Enchantment
Signet of Weariness/Cry of Frustation (depending on the rest of my team)
Res Signet

Hope that helps a bit. Good Luck!

tuperwho · Apr 20, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Thanks to all for the great replies. So many decisions to make now.